what do the experts call i t, anhedonia? yes, that’s how i feel (or don’t feel rather).
flat mood.
i do nothing.
but it’s another matter, that i have no desire to do anything either.
i am not severely depressed, not in the well. generally ok, laugh a little, sleep a lot, eat some, take care of myself some, of the house some. (the laughs are starting to feel made up more & more).
i am not normal, by any means, normal said with all the endnotes it needs. i am not efficient, i am not productive, i am not satisfied, i am not tired from work, i am not doing.
i am between those two. and yes, have been here before. familiar territory.
after lifelong depression, it starts to feel like a familiar coat or pair of pants that one knows every crease, touch, feel, fit, size, smell of too well.
there is a huge lack of desire to get out of this flat affect i am fighting, to take just one itty bitty tiny baby step in any direction is taking up more than i seem to be able to muster right now.
i could melt. just end. life, living, everything. and be fine. not out of any intense depression, no not out of wanting to die, just so tired of living.
if you, dear reader, have any advice, do comment.
I too have Anhedonia. I am struggling with the constant feeling or rather mental state of unsatisfactoriness. I recently quit an antidepressant but I feel no better or worse. I yearn for emotions (sadness included) but feel none.
They say it is a side effect of SSRIs, I am hoping to go on Wellbutrin(different class drug) as it seems to help other people who have Anhedonia. I am hoping my pdoc will put me on that.
Other than that, I am apathetic. A complete disregard for anything. I am just unable to care anymore and unable to feel remorse for my actions.
Are you taking any medications?
Hang in there!
Dear JEK,
First of, sorry about the very belated response.
I fell out of anhedonia into a deep well of depression.
Yes, I can feel again, but I am struggling in this state as I was in anhedonia.
But, there is hope.
I have started therapy (as in psychotherapy) again, new therapist, feel positive about this.
I am also going to try homeopathy on recommendation of my new therapist.
More than that, I listen to Buddhist Dhamma talks, I am going to a group meditation again tonight.
And, I will face my demons, walk into the face of the lion’s mouth, and apply for Jobs. Work, meaningful work, and a daily schedule, nothing like it.
Yes, I take Cymbalta – 60 mg/day.
Eventually I hope to not be on any meds, they stop symptoms, give other side effects, but don’t *treat*.
*Please* don’t stop any meds until you consult your prescriber! I have done that and had severe withdrawl symptoms.
I have taken Wellbutrin before, didn’t work as well to relieve my symptoms, everyone is different.
Thank you for pointing out that anhedonia itself may be a side effect of meds and not related to depression.
May you be at peace & free from suffering.
May you be happy.
Do take care.
Hey,
It’s good to hear you have your emotions back.
I stopped my meds (Celexa/Wellbutrin) a month ago. I am not quite as numb/apathetic but I still have no emotions/desires and the Anhedonia persists.
I have reflected on the causes of my depression and have found a satisfactory answer. I have concluded it is low testosterone, underdeveloped interpersonal skills such as assertiveness, low self-esteem and delusions.
Listening to Dhamma talks (from Buddhanet) have been somewhat helpful. I think it is very important to find out if the depression is caused by thought patterns or if it is organic in nature. One thing I learned from Depression/Derealization is the concept of Anatta or non-self. It gave me an epiphany into the interconnectedness of everything.
The symptom that is most unpleasant to me is not sadness, but rather detachment. The past six months felt like a month or less. It feels like I am living miles away from my body and I have lost my ability to care. I found that I feel most like myself on days I am quiet minded. I have constant racing thoughts and it is difficult for me to stay in the present.
I hope the meditation works out for you. And facing your demons and self-awareness can only help.
Can you feel pleasure at all?
Not only in the past 4 years have I felt positive emotion only twice, but I also have severe insecurity/social anxiety and my mind goes blank a lot and I also have really bad OCD and post traumatic stress. Not to mention severe insomnia and an eating disorder. I feel like I’m fighting world war III every single day. Is this some karma hell or what????????????????
I realize this reply is a little late but if you read this let me know how that homeopathy went ok? I’ll be trying that in a couple months but that’s a ways away…I’d like to know how that worked out for you.
It is important that you understand you are not suffering because of bad karma but from easily treatable chemical imbalances in your brain. Religion can be very harmful during depression as it promotes guilt and regret and these feeling only worsen the depression.
May I recommend taking 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine supplements daily?
These should correct abnormally low levels of Dopamine, Serotonin and Norepinephrine in your body.
The mainstream religions are for people who can’t think for themselves- I don’t do that “God” crap.
I took tryptophan and 5 HTP and it worked- but my body very quickly (as in 1 day!!) built up a tolerance to it and that was the first and last time it ever worked. Tried tyrosine too. No results at all with that so I believe the problem must be my receptors, not just a deficiency. I don’t have enough receptors or any at all. Or maybe my cells can’t convert the tyrosine to dopamine, maybe those cells are dead. How to revive dead and damaged cells? How to build new receptors? Nobody seems to know.
And so I take it you have recovered from your anhedonia? How did you do it and how bad was it to begin with?
I have not recovered at all. In fact, it has gotten worse to the point where I cannot find enjoyment in anything (including music, exercise…). Everything is simply gray. I have tried Adderall (Amphetamine) and it helped somewhat alleviate the dead feeling inside but no other med has helped me. I have the diagnosis of Schizoaffective Disorder, which has Anhedonia as one of it’s main negative features.
My pdoc discourages me from taking dopamine agonists (drugs that increase dopamine) as these may tip the chemical balance in my brain into a full blown psychosis.
Anhedonia simply isn’t low dopamine in your body, it is more complex. It involves the reward circuitry in the nucleus accumbens of your brain (electric stimulation to that area produces pleasure in test subjects). If you have too much dopamine, you may also experience Anhedonia as a symptom of psychosis.
I am currently taking a low dose of Abilify (5mg) and it seems to help a little.
Have you received an official diagnosis?
Have you considered adding Abilify or other antipsychotics to your antidepressants?
I was diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder some years ago. Haven’t seen a psychiatrist in years. I’m taking the all natural route. I believe I have a better chance that way. Homeopathy is next on my list, and well I have a long list. It will take me a while as I get disability- anhedonia is my biggest problem but definitely not my only problem. There’s the severe insomnia, sleeping 2-3 hours a night. The severe OCD that won’t even let me read a goddamned book or get a glass of water or have a visitor over my house. Then there’s my post traumatic stress which gives me constant intense torturous flashbacks. Then there’s my social anxiety which won’t even let me have a conversation with another human being, outside of the internet. Not to mention an eating disorder…
But back to the anhedonia. You know something? I’ve never really heard of anyone ever recovering from this. Have you?
I’m “glad” I found you. And I hope you don’t just up and stop talking to me like a lot of people seem to do.
The music thing sucks doesn’t it, how it just bounces off your ears? But I sing and dance around anyway.
I have heard of people recovering from depressive Anhedonia, usually with administration of SSRI/SNRI. In my case (schizoaffective), Abilify has helped a lot with the lack of enjoyment. It restores my will power and desire to do things but I still don’t have the subjective feeling of euphoria.
If you take a natural route, I recommend Mucuna pruriens, it increases dopamine levels in your brain.
If you ever decide to go on medications, I am not qualified to make any recommendations but I think Abilify, Amilsupride and Clozapine are some of the more effective drugs.
Do you suffer from other negative symptoms as well?
(Avolition, Apathy, Inabilify to take care of oneself…?
To me the official diagnosis doen’t matter. It’s just a name slapped on a set of symtoms and even within the official diagnosis, it’s different for everybody. They keep changing mine anyway, first it was major depression then bipolar then some other ones. Then they were prescribing me ssri’s for years and my serotonin was just fine- I was pissed when I found out anhedonia was a dopamine problem, it has almost nothing to do with serotonin. They need to quit playing Guess and Check with the meds and find out what is wrong with each individual.
What I was getting at in that last comment was that you’re actually the very first person I’ve ever talked to that has anhedonia. I’ve read blogs and stories but never actually conversed with anyone. It’s good to find someone that really understands. Other people just don’t get it.
Doesn’t tyrosine and l dopa and n acetyl tyrosine and phenylalanine all increase dopamine? I’ve done those and ate plenty of foods containing these with no results whatsoever. So how will Mucuna pruriens be any different? I’ve heard of it, but if nothing else works I don’t see how that will.
Other symptoms…I definitely have not lost my desire to do things at all. I have so many many things I desperately want to do like take a trip to six flags and ride some roller coasters, go see my friend in New York, lots and lots of things, but I just know I won’t enjoy them at all, not even a little bit. I can clean my house and things like that but it’s hard to do more than the bare minimum, you know? It’s just like I get no enjoyment whatsoever from anything at all, but the desire is still there all the way. Do you feel kinda unconscious, like you’re only half alive??? Do you have this too or is it just me? For me it’s not as much the absence of happiness, but more the halfway dead feeling.
This is worse than depression. If this isn’t the worst condition a human being can have, it’s very close. I would rather have terminal cancer than this.
And I don’t think dopamine agonists increase dopamine so what is your doc talking about? I’m a good 98% sure what they do is bind to the receptors in place of dopmine which is good if your specific problem is your neurons can’t convert tyrosine to dopamine. They won’t work if you don’t have receptors (Nothing will work if you don’t have the receptors, which I think is what’s going on with me) But if your receptors are fine then they should work great. Try some vitex also called chaste tree. I’ve been taking it for a week now with no results but I heard of a guy that said this is the only thing that worked for him. I also heard Nadh is good for anhedonia. It’s all natural and only like 15 bucks or something so it’s worth a shot.
I am glad I found you too. I haven’t conversed with a fellow sufferer either.
“Doesn’t tyrosine and l dopa and n acetyl tyrosine and phenylalanine all increase dopamine?
Not necessarily, they increase it if there is a lack of dopamine due to under-abundance of the precursors. If your body already has sufficient levels of Tyrosine, Phenalanine, it makes little difference if you take the supplements or not.
As for L-Dopa, it directly crosses the blood-brain barrier and is then converted to Dopamine so it might actually increase the amount of dopamine in your brain. I don’t know the mechanism of Mucuna Pruriens but from what I have read, it seems to somehow increase dopamine as they use it for Parkinson’s Disease, similar to L-Dopa.
“I can clean my house and things like that but it’s hard to do more than the bare minimum, you know? ”
I definitely relate to this, why go the extra mile if it gives you no sense of accomplishment or reward.
“It’s just like I get no enjoyment whatsoever from anything at all, but the desire is still there all the way. Do you feel kinda unconscious, like you’re only half alive??? Do you have this too or is it just me? For me it’s not as much the absence of happiness, but more the halfway dead feeling.”
Thank you for describing my feeling. Ahh, finally there is someone who understands. For me, I think it is the depersonalization (feeling that life is like a movie, and I am not really participating in it) that is causing this. It is almost as if my level of consciousness has decreased to the point where I have no cohesive sense of self. An analogy I would use would be something like a street intersection with no traffic lights (cars being my senses). I feel as if the knob on my subjective experience has been turned down and I sometimes wonder if I exist at all. As for happiness, I am not particularly sad or unhappy. Just not happy, not sad, not discontent, simply numb.
“And I don’t think dopamine agonists increase dopamine so what is your doc talking about? I’m a good 98% sure what they do is bind to the receptors in place of dopmine which is good if your specific problem is your neurons can’t convert tyrosine to dopamine.”
You are right. I meant dopamine activity in the brain, not the amount of dopamine. Some NRIs however (Wellbutrin) etc… actually inhibit the reuptake of dopamine, thereby increasing the synaptic levels.
Thanks for the recommendation but I can’t really take D2-activating drugs as they may throw me into a psychosis.
Do you have symptoms of Depersonalization?
Yeah I definitely feel like I’m not really really there, like I’m watching instead of participating. But it’s not that recognizable as I’ve had Anhedonia to a lesser degree my whole life. It hit really bad 4 years ago and hasn’t budged since then.
I was on wellbutrin for years and it did me no good. What does it mean if NOTHING is working? Are all my dopaminergic neurons just completely dead or what? It’s frustrating trying to figure out what is really going on. Even the doctors, even the alternative ones know very little about this.
And nadh doesn’t do anything specifically with dopamine. It increases ATP brain energy.
That’s interesting. There are some alternative treatments like Electroconvulsive Therapy and Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation. If there are university studies you area, it is worth checking out.
Have you tried Love and Compassion meditation? It has been associated with activation in the left prefrontal cortex, which has been linked to positive emotion and feelings of joy.
What about stimulants? Have you tried taking Adderall or other amphetamines?
When I took a dose of Adderall, it restored me 60% to my old self, I didn’t continue taking it because my doctor advised against it.
Why did your doctor advise you to stop taking it if he put you on it in the first place and it was working. And what’s that meditation? I’ve tried to meditate many times but every single time I end up itching really bad??? It’s like every force in the universe is coming together to make sure I stay miserable.
Studies are a good idea, I might check that out. I live right in the U of I campus.
Would you consider letting me see your natal chart? I’m studying astrology very deeply and I’m trying to see what the link is between dopamine problems, depression and brain chemistry in general and the planetary positions at birth. I think it will be very interesting. If not, that’s ok. It doesn’t seem like you want to get too personal.
My doctor didn’t put me on the adderall, I got it from a friend. You can find instructions for the meditation here: http://www.buddhanet.net/metta_in.htm.
I got this from a free test online.
Sun Leo 21.49 Ascendant Leo 16.51
Moon Libra 27.31 II Virgo 16.12
Mercury Virgo 3.38 R III Libra 17.44
Venus Virgo 3.43 R IV Scorpio 19.11
Mars Virgo 19.04 V Sagittarius 18.58
Jupiter Leo 23.54 VI Capricorn 17.44
Saturn Aquarius 2.07 R VII Aquarius 16.51
Uranus Capricorn 10.19 R VIII Pisces 16.12
Neptune Capricorn 14.27 R IX Aries 17.44
Pluto Scorpio 17.40 Midheaven Taurus 19.11
Lilith Capricorn 12.18 XI Gemini 18.58
Asc node Capricorn 18.36 XII Cancer 17.44
I saw my doctor today and she said we could try Clorazil as an alternative. It is gold standard medication for Schizoaffective dx.
So you’re pretty young, huh, born around 1992. I was thinking you were in your 50’s or something; you sound mature. It would be easier if I could see the whole chart but I’ll try to work with this (and it looks like you got that from cafe astrology- for future reference if you’re ever interested a better one is at freehoroscopeastrology.com). I’ll let you know if I come up with anything.
Thanks. I get that a lot, I was actually born in 1991.
It sucks to not be able to enjoy anything at this age.
Have you 2 had any luck with your anhedonia,JEK I,m so sorry your so young but your em..pathetic and supportive individual.I,ve .had this dreadfull condition mostly the last 7 years and wondering if Albilify on its own is worth a try.Ive tried most meds without much sucsess and cant stand the apathy and numbness anymore.
I find myself engaging in activities that are normally found pleasurable more and more. I am on a combination of Abilify 10mg and Mirtazapine (Remeron) 30mg. People say I look happier but I still feel the same inside. I have only been on it for ~2 weeks, it takes at least 4-6 to fully kick-in. This is by far the closest I have come to success. The good thing about it is that I do not have suicidal ideation and other severe symptoms anymore. The closest thing to joy I felt was when I was sleep deprived for 36 hours, it alleviated my depression completely for about 3 hours and I actually felt joy. You might want to give it a try by drinking coffee to keep you up.
I am sorry to hear you’ve suffered from this for 7 years. I have been in this mode for 2.5 years now. I think there is definite hope with the newer antipsychotics such as Amisulpride (Solian) that actually increase dopamine at lower dosages. Michael, have you ever tried a dopamine enhancing drug (Amphetamines, Cocaine…)? If so, did it alleviate your symptoms at all?
No no luck yet…I’m still working on it. I can’t stand it anymore either but I don’t have apathy. I have angony and anguish over wanting things so desperately that I can’t get, feeling like this. This is hell on earth.
You actually felt happy..Wow..That’s amazing. I’m ‘happy’ for you! I think it helps that you are so young, your body has more strength…I’m only 26 myself and it started when I was 22…So I know what you mean. I’m sorry Michael you’ve had this for 7 years, that’s a long time…There’s this one lady with a blog, she’s had anhedonia for 40 years!!!!!!!!! It’s scary to think about.
Have either of you ever had your neurotransmitter levels tested? I did and I actually have elevated dopamine level, well above average. Integrative pyschiatry.com, medicare/medicaid will pay if you get that.
I’m still working on the natal chart thing. As I’m sure you can understand, I’m a little lacking in the motivation department. What about your chart Michael, would you consider letting me check it out?
I think there is a distinction between Anhedonia and Depression. I have had both. Anhedonia, by definition, is a negative condition. (Pleasure that is supposed to be there is not there). Depression on the other hand, is positive. (Suffering that should not be there). In both states of mind, I did not desire anything nor did I feel like I could do something to alleviate the feeling.
Munequita, it is interesting that you mention you have “wants you can’t have”, I am wondering if you have considered the psychological component of your condition. In your case, you don’t have apathy and it seems like you actually want things. The anticipation of happiness is there but the pleasure is missing. Have you tried imagination exercises to see if having those things would actually make you happier?
If that’s the case, you maybe suffering from Dukkha (otherwise known as Craving), the elimination which is the main goal in Buddhism.
Michael, I completely empathize with your numb feeling and it does go away. SSRIs and drugs that boost Serotonin cause that unpleasant feeling. I have been off SSRIs for about 18 months now and it is slowly improving. Other than that, I would ask your doctor about alternative antidepressants. (MAOIs, TCAs…)
Just to clarify, I still have the condition but I have the feeling it is getting better. I don’t feel better but I engage in more “happy” behaviors (listening to music, reading…) than before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation#Treatment_for_depression
Looks like Michael’s gone lol.
What do you mean by the anticipation of happiness? Like I actually feel happiness thinking about what I want? Nope. No happiness whatsoever. And yes of course I’ve tried imagination exercises, a thousand zillion times. Trying to feel good actually gives me extreme anxiety. It makes me feel dead and panicky, instead of just dead. Anhedonia doesn’t require apathy. It is still very possible to WANT things, especially things you’ve been wanting all your life. It just means you can’t enjoy them, neither the idea of having them nor actually having them…Anhedonia f-ing sucks. Actually as earthgirl said, it is almost a joke to say it sucks, since it is so way beyond sucking.
And hey I’ve been doing the natal chart thing- how sure are you of your birth time? And could you post or send me your actual visual chart? I need to see the decans and where the actual planets are in the houses, not just which house is on what cusp. freehoroscopeastrology has a better one than cafeastrology.
Ok I take that as a no. But if you change your mind you will be doing humanity a favor, I think I’m on to something with the 3rd decan of scorpio and the maybe the 8th house, and some placements of saturn definitely look suspicious. But anyway.
Any luck?
Hi,
My mood has improved a lot but I still cannot feel joy/pleasure. I am on Remeron and Abilify.
I am pretty sure about my birth time, its 8AM GMT time.
Hey jek, I think Im really getting somwhere with this, finding an astrological cause for anhedonia. What I strongly suspect is Chiron, the asteroid.What that website gave you listed above doesn’t say where chiron is in your chart, can you find out? There are lots of sites that tell you where your chiron is, just google another one. Thanks
Ok never mind I figured it out. That is if you were born in 91 right?
If anyone still reads this you cannot actually build up a tolerance to amino acids like tyrosine or 5-HTP like you can with drugs. What happens is they stop being able to work if you don’t supply your body with the co-factors that allow them to do their job. For example you should always take them on an empty stomach and along with vitamin b6. At other times of the day you should supply other vital nutrients. Loads of info on this in the book The Way Up From Down (available free in PDF) or you could buy the book The Mood Cure, or read http://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk -to deal with anhedonia you are looking mostly at ways to increase dopamine.
Good luck, I hope you have both found some relief!
Yep still reading this and still unbelievably still have anhedonia. you say they stop being able to work without the necessary cofactors. But if the necessary cofactors aren’t there to begin with then how did it start working at all? I was going to get that book mood cure but instead bought a similar book it was called something life on the edge or something with the word edge in it. Didn’t help much. I read every page and it said little to nothing about anhedonia which is far different from depression. I will get the mood cure maybe it will say something i haven’t heard a million times but i doubt it.